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6.5 Grendel vs 308 Winchester: Everything You Need To Know
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May 10, 2024
To learn more about popular calibers like the 6.5 Grendel and 308 Winchester, visit: https://huntingguns101.com/optin1615146914565?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=HG101&utm_term=YT&utm_content=6.5grendelvs308 In this video, I do detailed analysis of the 6.5 Grendel vs 308 Winchester and which one you should be using in your rifle. While most hunters are probably familiar with the .308 Winchester as a hunting cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel is not nearly as well known or as widely used. However, as the AR-platform continues to gain in popularity among hunters and shooters, things are changing fast on that front as more people are looking into good cartridges to use in a Modern Sporting Rifle. That’s not really surprising because the AR-platform offers many inherent advantages for hunters. For that reason, hunters have several mainstream choices for medium bore AR cartridges. Among those that will function in an AR-15, the 6.5 Grendel is one of the most widely used. Likewise, the .308 Winchester is far and away the most popular cartridge used in the larger AR-10 platform. Both cartridges are solid performers, but each also has different strengths and weaknesses. To read a more detailed comparison of the 6.5 Grendel vs 308, visit: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-5-grendel-vs-308/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow BGHB: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheBigGameHuntingBlog Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebiggamehunter_/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheBigGameHunt -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
View Video Transcript
0:00
Hi there, I'm John McAdams, founder of the Big Game Hunting blog, and in this video I'm
0:05
going to do a detailed comparison of the 6.5 Grindle and .308 Winchester cartridges
0:12
While most hunters are probably familiar with the .308 Winchester as a hunting cartridge
0:17
the 6.5 Grindle is not nearly as well known or as widely used
0:22
However, as the AR platform continues to gain in popularity among hunters and shooters
0:28
things are changing fast on that front as more people are looking into good cartridges
0:32
to use in a modern sporting rifle. That's not really surprising because the AR platform offers many inherent advantages for
0:40
hunters and shooters. So for that reason, hunters have several mainstream choices for medium bore AR cartridges these days
0:49
Among those that will function in an AR-15, the 6.5 Grindle is one of the most widely used
0:55
Likewise, the .308 Winchester is far and away the most popular cartridge used in the
0:59
larger AR-10 platform. Both cartridges are solid performers, but each also has different strengths and weaknesses
1:08
So in this episode, I'm going to do a detailed comparison of the 6.5 Grindle and .308 Winchester
1:14
and discuss the pros and cons of each one to help provide some insight into which cartridge
1:19
will work best for you. As usual, we'll start with the history of the 6.5 Grindle and the .308 Winchester
1:27
Winchester unveiled the cartridge we now know as the .308 Winchester in 1952
1:32
The result of a long and contentious search by the U.S. military for a new cartridge to
1:37
replace the .30-06 Springfield after World War II, the new .30 caliber Winchester cartridge
1:43
and the very similar 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge the military adopted had almost exactly the
1:50
same ballistics as the original .30-06 load. However, the newer .308 and 7.62x51mm cartridges fit this same performance into a significantly
2:01
smaller package than the old .30-06. Specifically, the original 7.62x51mm NATO M80 ball load fired a 146 grain full metal
2:12
jacket bullet at 2,750 feet per second. The 7.62x51mm NATO had virtually the same ballistics as the original .30-06 Springfield
2:22
load which was a 150 grain bullet at 2,700 feet per second
2:27
Like the .30-06, the .308 Winchester and the 7.62x51mm NATO fired a .308 caliber bullet
2:36
Now the 7.62x51mm and the .308 Winchester both achieved that performance with a much
2:41
shorter case, 51mm vs. 63mm due to advantages in powder technology that occurred after the
2:49
development of the .30-06. Though the .30-06 remains quite popular among big game hunters, the .308 Winchester has
2:57
steadily grown in popularity over the ensuing decades as well and it is now one of the most
3:02
popular and commonly used centerfire rifle cartridges in the world. Alright, now let's talk about the 6.5 Grindle
3:10
The M16 rifle and the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge got off to a pretty rough start in Vietnam
3:17
with the US Army and the Marine Corps. Modifications to the rifle and ammunition solved most of the problems that plagued the
3:23
system during the war, but large numbers of people in the US military still had very serious
3:29
concerns regarding the stopping power of the little cartridge. Civilian hunters who adopted the AR-15 and the .223 Remington cartridge during the last
3:39
couple decades of the 20th century shared those concerns. Now while the rifle and cartridge worked extremely well for target shooting and for predator
3:47
slash varmint hunting, the .223 Remington developed a reputation for poor performance
3:53
on deer-sized game. However, the AR-15 platform offered a number of advantages to shooters and was also very
4:00
popular in the USA. With this in mind, gun designers, with their finger on the pulse of the American hunting
4:06
and shooting communities, realized they were looking at a potentially massive opportunity
4:12
Realizing that many people loved the AR-15 but that the .223 Remington cartridge was
4:17
not the best choice for hunting big game, designers set about developing a number of
4:21
larger bore cartridges that were more powerful than the .223 but would still function in
4:26
AR-15 rifles. Among others, this list includes cartridges like the 6.8 Remington SPC, the .300 Blackout
4:35
the .450 Bushmaster, the .458 SOCOM, and the .50 Beowulf. Bill Alexander, who was the same guy who developed the .50 Beowulf, designed the 6.5 Grindle
4:45
to fill this market niche in 2002. By modifying a 6.5mm PPC case, which is itself descended from the .220 Russian and the 7.62x39mm
4:57
cartridges, Alexander was very successful in building an efficient, accurate, and sweet
5:03
cartridge that functioned very well in the AR platform. The 6.5 Grindle cartridge is also significantly more powerful than the .223 Remington
5:12
Not only that, but the 6.5 Grindle cartridge is extremely versatile, so it works extremely
5:17
well for long-range shooting, tactical, law enforcement, varmint hunting, and big game
5:21
hunting applications. The cartridge did initially struggle to gain widespread acceptance in the shooting and
5:28
hunting communities for a variety of reasons, one of which was the fact that Bill Alexander
5:33
trademarked the name of the cartridge. However, he relinquished that trademark in 2011 when the cartridge gained SAMI approval
5:41
thus allowing other companies to manufacture ammo, barrels, etc., all bearing the name
5:47
6.5 Grindle. Since then, the 6.5 Grindle has gained traction as more and more hunters and shooters who
5:54
appreciate the improved performance it offers over the .223 and 5.56 NATO cartridges, those
6:00
people have adopted the new 6.5 Grindle. OK, now let's talk about the relative sizes of the .308 and the 6.5 Grindle
6:09
As you can imagine, there are some big differences between the two cartridges. So first, the 6.5 Grindle is much shorter than the .308
6:16
This is because the Grindle cartridge was originally designed for use in an AR-15, which
6:20
can only accommodate cartridges up to 2.26 inches long. With an overall length of 2.26 inches, the 6.5 Grindle is the maximum size cartridge
6:30
that will fit in an AR-15. At 2.81 inches long, the .308 Winchester is much longer and requires a larger rifle that
6:39
can accommodate a cartridge of that size, like the AR-10. Now in that same vein, the .308 Winchester also has a much longer case length than the
6:48
6.5 Grindle, 2.015 inches vs. 1.52 inches. Now since they are descended from different parent cartridges, the .308 Winchester and
6:59
the 6.5 Grindle have different rim diameters, .473 inches for the .308 and .438 inches
7:06
for the 6.5 Grindle. For those reasons, there is a big difference in case capacity between the two cartridges
7:13
with the .308 Winchester having much more powder capacity than the 6.5 Grindle
7:18
Now each also uses different diameter bullets, .264 inches for the Grindle and .308 inches
7:25
for the .308 Winchester. So most 6.5 Grindle ammo typically has bullet weights in the 90 to 130 grain range, with
7:33
100 grain, 110 grain, 120 grain, and 123 grain bullets being the most popular
7:39
On the other hand, the majority of .308 Winchester factory loads shoot bullets in the 110 to
7:45
180 grain range. 150 grain, 165, 168, and 180 grain bullets are by far the most common for that cartridge
7:54
Now the .308 Winchester also has a higher maximum semi-pressure than the 6.5 Grindle
7:59
of 62,000 PSI vs. 52,000 PSI. Now those differences in external dimensions between the Grindle and the Winchester cartridge
8:09
translate into some interesting differences in their ballistic performance. This is illustrated when comparing Federal, Hornady, and Nosler factory ammunition
8:18
In this case, the 6.5 Grindle loads use a 120 grain softpoint with a .340 BC, a 120
8:25
grain Nosler ballistic tip with a .458 BC, and a 123 grain Hornady SST bullet with a
8:33
.510 BC, while the .308 Winchester loads use a 150 grain softpoint with a .414 BC, a 125
8:43
grain Nosler ballistic tip with a .366 BC, and a 165 grain ballistic tip with a .475 BC
8:52
The significantly larger case capacity of the .308 Winchester means that the cartridge
8:56
can push a heavier bullet at a faster muzzle velocity than the 6.5 Grindle
9:01
Not surprisingly, this gives the cartridge an edge in terms of kinetic energy and trajectory
9:07
In this particular case, the .308 Winchester starts off with significantly more, like 40
9:11
to 87% more kinetic energy, and that number increases with range for some of those loads
9:19
This is due to the fact that these particular .308 Winchester loads just use a significantly
9:23
heavier bullet that's fired quite a bit faster. Now additionally, these .308 Winchester loads have a flatter trajectory with less bullet
9:31
drop at all ranges. Now note that the 123 grain Hornady SST load bucks this trend to a certain degree
9:39
Now that particular 6.5 Grindle load uses a very aerodynamic bullet with a high ballistic
9:44
coefficient that retains energy very well. So while the .308 Winchester still has less drop and more retained energy at 500 yards
9:53
the gap narrows considerably with that 6.5 load. Now let's talk about wind deflection, specifically how a 10 mile an hour crosswind impacts those
10:02
same 6.5 Grindle and .308 Winchester loads out to 500 yards. Once again, we see that with the exception of the 123 grain SST load, the .308 Winchester
10:13
outperforms the 6.5 Grindle in terms of wind drift at all ranges
10:18
However, the gap between the two cartridges is not as big in this particular area as it
10:22
was in the kinetic energy and just bullet drop arenas. Now in fact, the Hornady SST load actually has less wind drift than some of the .308
10:33
Winchester hunting loads at all ranges. So while the .308 Winchester does have something of an edge with wind drift, this is absolutely
10:40
a strong suit for the 6.5 Grindle and the exact loads being compared here really make
10:46
a big difference. Now let's talk about recoil. Felt recoil will vary from shooter to shooter and rifle to rifle, but free recoil energy
10:55
is still a useful way to compare cartridges. Now the 6.5 Grindle has significantly less recoil than the .308 Winchester
11:02
Depending on the exact load, the .308 Winchester has approximately 2 to 3 times more recoil
11:08
Now that is really saying something too because the .308 isn't known as an especially hard
11:13
recoiling cartridge. Now most shooters should be able to handle the recoil of both cartridges, but the 6.5
11:20
Grindle has a big advantage in this respect, especially for smaller or more recoil-shy hunters
11:27
Now don't underestimate the impact that recoil has on the ability of a person to shoot accurately either
11:33
Some people do handle recoil better than others, but all other things being equal, they will
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absolutely shoot more accurately with a milder recoiling cartridge. Alright, so where do we stand here
11:45
The .308 Winchester fires a larger diameter and heavier bullet at a faster velocity than
11:51
the 6.5 Grindle. For this reason, the .308 has a flatter trajectory and significantly more retained kinetic energy
11:58
than the 6.5 Grindle at typical hunting ranges. However, the 6.5 Grindle does have much less recoil
12:05
Now when comparing these two cartridges, it is important to remember that the 6.5 Grindle
12:09
was designed to offer better performance out of an AR-15 than the .223 Remington
12:14
Bill Alexander was very successful in accomplishing that goal. However, just like there is a big gap in performance between the .223 Remington and the .308 Winchester
12:24
there remains a big, though slightly smaller, gap in performance between the .308 Winchester
12:29
and the 6.5 Grindle. Now all told, the 6.5 Grindle is a moderately powerful, mild recoiling, and relatively flat
12:36
shooting cartridge that's also pretty resistant to wind drift. This is especially remarkable considering that the cartridge packs that level of performance
12:45
into a very small package that can still fit in the relatively tight constraints of the
12:50
AR-15 platform. So I think it's fair to say that the 6.5 Grindle is a very good all-around cartridge for those
12:56
who want to use an AR-15 for big game hunting. Now in addition to hunting, the 6.5 Grindle is also a really nice choice for self-defense
13:04
or personal protection for people who like the AR-15 platform. And the cartridge also does have a very good barrel life
13:11
Now the 6.5mm bore diameter is also in something of a sweet spot, where it's easier to manufacture
13:17
very high BC bullets that aren't especially heavy. Those aerodynamic projectiles don't slow down as fast and are more resistant to wind drift
13:26
At the same time, even though it uses lighter bullets, the 6.5 Grindle also has a slight
13:32
edge over the .308 in bullet sectional density. Now sectional density is a measure of the ratio of the diameter of a projectile to its mass
13:42
All other things equal, a heavier projectile of a given caliber will be longer and have
13:47
a higher sectional density, and they will consequently penetrate deeper than projectiles
13:51
with a lower mass and or sectional density. As an example, 123 grain and 129 grain .264 caliber bullets have sectional densities of
14:02
.252 and .264 respectively. This compares favorably to 150 grain, 165 grain, and 180 grain .308 caliber bullets
14:14
which have sectional densities of .226, .248, and .271 respectively. Now there is some overlap here, but with the exception of the absolute heaviest 180 grain
14:26
.308 Winchester bullets, the 6.5 Grindle does have a slight edge in sectional density
14:32
That being said, while it does have an edge in terms of sectional density, I wouldn't
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say that it really punches above its weight to the same degree as other cartridges like
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the 6.5 Swede or the 9.3x62mm Mauser. What about accuracy? Now, the .308 Winchester has seen extensive use in the hands of competition shooters and
14:52
has an outstanding reputation in that area. However, the 6.5 Grindle also excels in that area and, if we're being honest, both cartridges
15:01
are absolutely capable of tack-driving accuracy in the right hands. That said, I do tend to lean towards the 6.5 Grindle in this area because the cartridge
15:11
has such mild recoil. This is a very important characteristic that absolutely helps facilitate better shot placement
15:18
which is extremely important while hunting. On the other hand, the .308 Winchester is simply a significantly more powerful cartridge
15:27
It's not in the same class as heavy hitters like the 7mm Remington Magnum or the .300
15:32
Winchester Magnum, but it is still on a completely different level from the 6.5 Grindle
15:38
For one thing, the .308 Winchester uses larger diameter bullets. For this reason, it has about 36% more frontal surface area than the 6.5 Grindle
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All other things being equal, a bigger bullet will make a bigger hole, cause more tissue
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damage and result in more blood loss. The .308 Winchester can also use significantly heavier bullets, which, along with the advantage
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the cartridge has in case capacity, helps the .308 carry more energy downrange
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Combined with the larger diameter and frontal surface area of the bullets used by the cartridge
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hunters have a little bit more room for error in shot placement when compared to the 6.5 Grindle
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Those characteristics are also helpful when hunting bigger game. Make no mistake, the 6.5 Grindle is a good hunting cartridge with outstanding terminal
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performance on many species of big game. It's just that I think the .308 Winchester is better in that role, that is, if the hunter
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can place his or her shots appropriately. When all is said and done, the 6.5 Grindle round is still more than powerful enough for
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hunting varmints as well as medium-sized game like deer at short to moderate range
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I would not use it on elk though. What about ammo selection
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While the 6.5 Grindle is a reasonably popular cartridge, it cannot hold a candle to the
16:55
.308 Winchester, which is typically one of the three most popular centerfire rifle cartridges
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sold in the USA. That said, there are some good factory ammo choices for both cartridges
17:08
The big ammo manufacturers like Barnes, Browning, Federal Premium, Hornady, Nosler, Remington
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and Winchester all produce a variety of quality .308 Winchester factory ammo suitable for hunting
17:20
On the other hand, 6.5 Grindle ammo is available from Federal with their Fusion MSR and American
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Eagle lines and Hornady with their American Gunner, Black, and Custom lines
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Alexander Arms still produces 6.5 Grindle ammo and Wolf also offers a pretty good low-priced
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full metal jacket option for the cartridge. Nosler also offers 6.5 Grindle ammunition as part of their Ballistic Tip line
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During normal times, it's usually very easy to find .308 Winchester ammo and almost any
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gun or sporting goods store will have a pretty good variety of .308 ammo in stock
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And really, as I record this in 2022, while we're still in the middle of an ammo shortage
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the .308 Winchester is one of the easier to find centerfire rifle ammo options available
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in the USA, at least where I've been shopping. Now, however, while it's not really rare, not every sporting goods store keeps 6.5 Grindle
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ammo in stock and that has also held true with the ongoing ammo shortage
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6.5 Grindle ammo is easier to find than some other things, but nowhere near as easy to
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find as .308 Winchester ammo, once again, as I'm recording this. Okay, what about rifles
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Well, once again, the .308 Winchester is a little bit more widely available than the
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6.5 Grindle, but there are a couple of good semi-auto as well as bolt-action rifles in
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both cartridges. Alexander Arms manufactured the first rifles in 6.5 Grindle and they continue to do so
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Since then, Wilson Combat and a couple of other companies like Radical Firearms and
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Brinton USA have also started producing modern sporting rifles in the cartridge
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It's also possible to purchase a 6.5 Grindle upper receiver and convert an existing AR-15
19:07
to shoot the 6.5 Grindle cartridge. Now, the 6.5 Grindle can also use regular M16 or M4 carbine magazines with a slight
19:15
decrease in magazine capacity and potentially in reliability. A typical 30-round .223 or .556 magazine will hold about 26 6.5 Grindle rounds
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Now, the Ruger American Ranch and Predator bolt-action rifles are currently manufactured
19:32
in 6.5 Grindle. The same goes for the CZ-527 and the Howa Mini
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Now, the .308 Winchester is relatively common in semi-automatic rifles like the AR-10 and
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the M1A. It's also very common in bolt guns. Of course, Remington and Winchester produce their flagship Model 70 and Model 700 rifles
19:53
in .308. Same thing goes for the Browning X-Bolt, the Kimber Hunter, Mossberg Patriot, Nosler M48
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Ruger American, Ruger Hawkeye, Savage Axis, and Weatherby Vanguard as well. So with all of that said, which cartridge is right for you
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Do you primarily hunt medium-sized game like Whitetail Deer, Feral Hogs, or Black Bear
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at ranges within 200 yards? Both cartridges will absolutely get the job done if you do your part
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There is not a gigantic difference between them ballistically inside 300 yards, though
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the .308 does have a little bit more kinetic energy and a little bit flatter trajectory
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but that's not to say that the 6.5 Grindle isn't capable at those ranges and on those animals
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Go with the 6.5 Grindle here if you want to hunt with an AR-15, or with the .308 if you
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want to go a more traditional route and have a bigger selection of ammo or rifles to choose
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from, or if you just want a little bit more powerful cartridge. Both will work, though
20:55
Now are you looking for the better cartridge for long-range hunting for game like Mule
20:59
Deer or Pronghorn in more open country where you might need to take a shot at several hundred yards
21:05
Now the .308 Winchester does have a flatter trajectory, depending on the exact load will
21:10
potentially drift a little bit less in the wind, and it does carry significantly more
21:14
energy out past 200 yards, so I would go with that cartridge in this situation
21:19
Do you want a hunting cartridge that is well-suited for a game like Caribou, Moose, Elk, Elan
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Kudu, or Red Stag that's just a little bit bigger? I consider both cartridges to be a little on the light side for hunting those sort of
21:31
animals, but in this case the .308 Winchester is clearly the better choice for most hunters
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out of these two particular cartridges because it shoots heavier and larger diameter bullets
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that carry so much more kinetic energy downrange. Do you prefer to use a semi-automatic rifle for hunting or for personal defense
21:50
Both will absolutely work in this role. The 6.5 Grindle is available in the AR-15 platform, which is smaller and lighter than
21:57
the AR-10s and whatnot that the .308 is available in. The cartridge also recoils less, which makes it easier to get back on target for a follow-up shot
22:07
However, while the 6.5 Grindle is certainly powerful enough to get the job done, and it
22:11
is quite a bit more powerful than the .223 or the .556 cartridges, the .308 Winchester
22:16
does just hit significantly harder, and it is the better choice for someone who wants
22:20
a true quote-unquote battle rifle. Are you sensitive to recoil and in need of a serious low-recoil cartridge
22:27
Well, the 6.5 Grindle has significantly less recoil than the .308 Winchester, especially
22:33
in a lighter rifle. Do you want the round best suited for target shooting out past 400 yards or so in a precision rifle
22:41
Both will work, and both have excellent reputations for precision shooting, but I would personally
22:46
lean towards the 6.5 Grindle for work at longer ranges, since it has such a mild recoil
22:51
Now, as I have stated several times in this episode, the 6.5 Grindle and the .308 Winchester
22:57
are both very solid rifle cartridges. However, since they were designed with very different goals in mind, the differences between
23:04
them are pretty big in many respects. Carefully evaluate your needs as a hunter based upon the circumstances you foresee using
23:12
the cartridge in, get a good hunting rifle chambered in the cartridge you select, learn
23:17
to shoot it well, use quality ammo, and it should serve you well afield
23:22
Now, if you enjoyed this video, then please make sure you subscribe to my YouTube channel
23:26
right now. Just click the red subscribe button below to make sure you don't miss out on any of
23:31
my new videos on hunting gear reviews, cartridge comparisons, and more. For more detailed information on popular hunting cartridges and what they are best
23:39
suited for, click on the link in the description below or go to HuntingGuns101.com to get a
23:46
free e-book I have written on the best hunting calibers. Now I'm going to turn it over to you
23:53
What cartridge do you prefer out of these two, the 6.5 Grindle or the .308 Winchester
23:58
What game have you successfully taken with them? Let me know by leaving a comment on this video right now
24:05
Thanks for watching, have a great day, and good hunting