Up next in 10
The Truth About 7mm PRC Velocities
3K views
May 10, 2024
To learn more about popular calibers like the 7mm PRC visit: https://huntingguns101.com/optin1615146914565?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=HG101&utm_term=YT&utm_content=7mmprcvelocity ______________________________________________ HUNTING AND SHOOTING GEAR I LIKE AND USE Best 7mm PRC Hunting Ammo: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/best-7mm-prc-ammo/ Best 7mm PRC Hunting Rifles: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/best-7mm-prc-rifles/ 7mm PRC Profile: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/7mm-prc/ Hearing Protection: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/earbuds My favorite scopes (blog article): https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/best-rifle-scopes-for-hunting/ My favorite budget hunting rifles (blog article): https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/best-hunting-rifles-under-500/ My favorite budget hunting rifle slings (blog article): https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/best-hunting-rifle-slings/ The above links, or the pages referenced, contain affiliate links. Commissions earned. ______________________________________________
View Video Transcript
0:00
Hi there, John McAdams coming to you live from the range out here in East Texas
0:05
Now this is a special video that I'm doing in response to some listener feedback that
0:09
I received. In particular, over the last month I've received a lot of complaints from listeners
0:14
saying that Hornady Precision Hunter ammo for the 7mm PRC is not living up to Hornady's
0:20
advertised performance of a 175 grain ELDX bullet at 3,000 feet per second
0:26
Now I have said that in the past, when I have shot that ammo through my rifle, which
0:31
has a 22 inch barrel, I have obtained velocities that led me to believe that 3,000 feet per
0:36
second was reasonable. Specifically, I was getting stuff in the 2,940, 950 feet per second range
0:43
And once again, that is with a 22 inch barrel. Now Hornady advertises 3,000 feet per second with that bullet out of a 24 inch barrel
0:51
So even if you're very conservative and you're adding 20 to 30 feet per second per additional
0:55
inch of barrel, that puts you right there at about 3,000 feet per second from it
1:00
But some people are claiming that that is still unrealistic, that people right now are
1:06
not achieving those advertised velocities, or really anything even close to them, even
1:11
when shooting from a 24 inch barrel, and they challenge me to prove my assertion
1:16
So that is what we're going to do here today. So specifically, I have a Christensen Arms Ridgeline FFT rifle, 22 inch barrel
1:24
This rifle comes from the factory with a muzzle brake. I have removed the muzzle brake, and we are going to shoot just with the thread protector
1:30
on it today, so no barrel devices whatsoever. No muzzle brake, no suppressor, anything like that
1:36
We're going to shoot just with a bare barrel, 22 inches, see what sort of velocities we
1:41
get with this ammo. Now we're going to use my Garmin chronograph to measure these velocities from the rifle
1:46
here today. I've used this chronograph side by side with a lab radar, and measured velocities for both
1:52
of them are almost identical. And since this Garmin is a lot smaller and easier to deal with, that's what we're going
1:57
to do. So I'm going to shoot a three shot group for you out of this rifle, and we'll see what
2:01
sort of velocities we're getting here today. So like I said, I'm getting about 2950 or a little bit faster out of a 22 inch barrel
2:41
and with no signs of pressure. Now I can just hear some people saying right now, but John, I've watched the YouTube video
2:46
and people are getting a lot slower velocities than that. Or maybe you've actually observed that yourself
2:52
You've taken some of this ammo to the range, chronographed it, and you're getting stuff
2:56
say around 2800 feet per second or something like that. John, what's the deal
3:00
Well, I got something I'm going to show you here in a second. I went and bought another box of ammo here recently, and we're going to shoot it and
3:06
measure these velocities from this stuff. This is another box of Hornady Precision Hunter ammo
3:13
On the surface, it looks identical to the stuff I just shot
3:16
Let's see how it shoots out of my rifle with a 22 inch barrel
3:40
So first let me apologize. I had to move a few feet at the shooting range because where I was just videoing from a few
3:45
minutes ago was in the shade then, the sun moved, now it's in the sun
3:50
So I'm standing back in the shade over here. But in any case, that second string of shots I used with that different box of Hornady
3:55
ammo produced very different results with velocity. Minimum velocity with that shot string, 2846
4:02
Average 2862. Maximum 2876. So about 100 feet per second slower out of the same rifle
4:12
What the heck is the deal, right? Let me show you. Both boxes look identical at first glance, but there's a very important difference that
4:21
a lot of people overlook with their ammo. So Hornady prints their lot numbers right here, right by my index finger on all of their ammo
4:32
This box is an older lot of ammo that I bought about a year ago
4:36
I bought a bunch of 7 PRC ammo, both their Precision Hunter ammo and both their Outfitter
4:40
ammo last spring, so spring of 2023. This was a brand new rifle that I got
4:46
I was trying to see what it liked, preparing for a big hunt that I had coming up in Africa
4:50
with it. And so I got all the ammo I could find and I shot a lot of it, but I still had a little
4:56
bit left over. That was one of the boxes from that Precision Hunter line that I had left over
5:01
And as you can see, that older stuff was performing very close to what Hornady advertised for it
5:06
Now this other box, you can see, is from a different lot number
5:11
This is a much newer lot of ammunition. I'm not exactly sure when Hornady produced it, but I just went down to the gun store
5:18
in my hometown here last week, bought a couple boxes of Precision Hunter ammo
5:24
Both of them happened to be in that same lot, and that is what I shot second
5:28
So you can see that stuff is much newer and it shoots quite a bit slower out of the same rifle
5:36
And I bought a couple of other boxes of Precision Hunter ammo in two different lot numbers from
5:41
the two I just showed you. Let's take a look, see how they perform here at the range too
6:03
Okay, I'm back. So for that shot string, minimum velocity 28.65, average 28.75, maximum 28.94
6:13
Pretty similar performance to what I was getting with that second batch of ammo I just shot
6:19
Here's the lot number for that one. Similar lot number to that second batch of ammo, pretty similar performance as well
6:27
I got one more batch of Hornady Precision Hunter ammo. Let's shoot that, see how it does
6:34
So that fourth lot of Hornady Precision Hunter ammo I shot, minimum velocity 28.59, average
6:56
28.68, maximum 28.84. Here's a lot number for it. So those last three lots of Hornady Precision Hunter ammo I shot were all produced like
7:11
right there, pretty close together, and they were all giving very similar performance out
7:15
of my rifle. And all three of those lots were giving very different performance from that older lot
7:21
of ammo that, like I said, I got about a year ago and was giving much higher velocities
7:27
I have some ideas about what is going on there. I want to show you something else first
7:33
Now I'm recording this video in the spring of 2024, and fortunately, Hornady is not the
7:37
only company that makes 7PRC ammo anymore. In fact, they're not even the only company that makes a 7PRC factory load with the 175
7:45
grain ELDX. Nope. Federal does too. This factory load for the 7PRC has the exact same advertised ballistics as Hornady's flagship
7:57
Precision Hunter line, a 175 grain ELDX at 3,000 feet per second
8:02
Let's see how this stuff performs in my rifle
8:24
So I shot five different lots of 7mm PRC ammo at the range today
8:29
All five lots had the exact same advertised ballistics, 175 grain ELDX at 3,000 feet per second
8:36
Now, the old Hornady Precision Hunter ammo that I bought a year ago was performing very
8:41
close to both what I predicted out of a 22 inch barrel and as advertised
8:47
Similar deal with the federal ammo. I bought that stuff a week ago
8:51
On the same trip, I bought the three lots of the slower Hornady Precision Hunter ammo
8:55
that was going both slower than advertised and slower than what I would have expected
9:01
So what the heck is going on with this stuff? I have an idea
9:05
Let's investigate it together in a little bit more detail. Well, I emailed Hornady customer service and I told them, hey, I shot some of your ammo
9:14
last year and it was shooting great, giving me high velocities that were in line with
9:19
what I expected, but I recently bought some of your new ammo and it's shooting a lot slower
9:24
out of the same rifle. What is the deal? Here is their response
9:28
Thank you for contacting us. When we test for pressure and velocity during production, we are using a 24 inch SAMI spec
9:34
test barrel with a SAMI minimum spec chamber and bore and groove dimensions
9:40
Some variables that may produce different velocities, especially in production rifles, are looser throat geometry in different rifling configurations and cross-sectional area compared
9:50
to SAMI test barrels. When the 7mm PRC was first introduced, the velocity specifications were set using several
9:58
high performance propellants that were readily available at the time. As most of you are aware, there is a worldwide propellant shortage
10:06
As such, we've been forced to find alternate propellants. When choosing a substitute powder, we focus on accuracy, consistent ignition, and temperature stability
10:16
A new propellant option met our criteria and, more importantly, is available
10:20
However, it often doesn't achieve the original velocity specifications. With this reduction in velocity coupled with variation in chambers and barrels, it is possible
10:30
to see 75 to 175 feet per second slower velocity from your rifle than the velocity printed
10:36
on the box. This alternate propellant solution does generate the consistency and accuracy we demand
10:43
Other substitutes did not meet those requirements. We prioritize accuracy over speed
10:48
Hornady has always encouraged shooters to test ammunition from their rifles to obtain
10:52
accurate velocity data. Due to the powder shortage, anyone in the ammunition manufacturing sector is faced with
10:58
choosing between loading ammunition slower than originally specified or simply not loading
11:03
ammo at all. This temporary powder solution allowed us to continue to produce and ship ammunition
11:09
despite the powder availability concerns." Okay, end of quote. Now they do so in a very polite and flowery manner, but they come right out and say it
11:21
Right now, Hornady is using a powder that is different from what they originally developed
11:25
the cartridge to use. I hypothesized that was what was going on
11:29
I figured they used some high-performance stuff in the old loads, they ran out, couldn't
11:35
get more, and are now using another powder. I also strongly suspected Federal was sitting on a pile of the special powder, and that
11:43
was what they were using in their ELDX 7mm PRC ammo. Now if Hornady is a 600-pound gorilla in the ammunition manufacturing industry, Federal
11:54
is an 800 or 1000-pound gorilla in the industry. Nobody can compare with Vista Outdoors when it comes to just the sheer size of their operation
12:05
That makes it easier for them sometimes to get some components that other companies can't get
12:11
So with all that in mind, I decided I was going to pull bullets from all those different
12:14
ammo lots, dump out the powder, see what I could discover. Okay, I'm back, and I've taken a few minutes and I've pulled bullets from all of those
12:24
different lots of 7mm PRC ammo I shot earlier and dumped the powder
12:29
So this is what we got. This was the very first lot of ammo I shot
12:33
This is the oldest stuff and the stuff that gave me the highest velocity. So as you can see, I got that powder
12:39
Now identifying powder purely by sight is pretty tricky. It's very easy to make mistakes, and it's really impossible to know for certain, though
12:48
I'm sure people are going to make some educated guesses on what type of powder that is I pulled
12:52
out of this old lot of Hornady Precision Hunter ammo. But what we can do is look at some other types of powder here and see pretty conclusively
13:03
that it is different. So I've laid out all this ammo in the order I shot them earlier
13:09
So this is the second lot of ammo. This is a newer lot of ammo, and as you can see, I got a lower velocity with it
13:15
And as you can see, it's a very different type of powder
13:21
So let's move on to a different lot of ammo. This is a third type of powder
13:26
This was the third type of ammo I shot, third powder I observed with it
13:31
It looks similar to the stuff I dumped out here, but it's not the same
13:35
It's a little bit different consistency and a different color. So I don't know exactly what the deal is, if this is a different type of powder or has
13:43
a different type of coating or treatment or whatever Hornady does to it, but it is different
13:49
from these other two lots I've pulled so far, and it's also delivering slower velocities
13:56
Now this lot of ammo is exactly right after 625, 624. It was the lot that came exactly right after that one
14:03
I just happened to pick this up at the store. They had about 12 boxes of 7PRC ammo from three different lots
14:10
I made sure to pick up stuff from all three different lots and it just so happened that I got two consecutive lots plus this one, which was different
14:17
So since they came out consecutively, the powder for this ammo looks almost identical
14:27
to this powder and it was giving velocities almost identical as well
14:30
2862 on average versus 2868 for this one. But in any case, all three of these were newer lots of 7PRC ammo that were newer than this
14:42
one and were all giving similar velocities that were quite a bit slower than that first one
14:47
So here is the Federal ammo. Federal puts their lot number in the box like that
14:54
This was giving me velocities very similar to what I was getting with that oldest lot
14:58
of Precision Hunter ammo. And like I said earlier, it's very difficult to identify powder purely by sight, but this
15:06
powder looks very, very similar to what they used here and the other stuff that was giving
15:14
me the faster velocities. And a little bit darker than this stuff
15:19
All right, more in a second. Now we'll talk about some solutions to this here in a second
15:27
But first I want to switch gears and acknowledge that some people will probably notice that
15:32
I'm getting higher velocities in this test than what other people are getting right
15:35
The slow stuff that I'm talking about in my test that I got out of my rifle was say 2860
15:41
2870 feet per second. And other people are getting 2800 feet per second out of a 24 inch barrel
15:49
So what is going on with that? There's a couple of things that can explain this
15:54
First, temperature sensitivity. Now modern powder is pretty temperature stable, certainly much more stable than was the case
16:01
50 or 100 years ago. But nothing is perfectly temperature stable. It is early spring, so guys who have been shooting for the past six months or so could
16:10
likely have been shooting in some pretty cold weather. Guys shooting in really cold weather will notice a decrease in muzzle velocity
16:19
The opposite is also true and people shooting in very hot weather will notice an increase
16:25
in velocity. Usually this isn't that big of a deal unless you're dealing with extremely cold temperatures
16:33
or extremely hot temperatures or you're using a powder that is more sensitive to temperature changes
16:40
Now the Precision Hunter ammo is usually pretty darn stable, but we're going to still see
16:45
a small change in muzzle velocity based on temperature. Now for me, in this test, I did all of my shooting in 65 to 70 degree weather
16:55
It was not hot, but it was also not very cold either, like a guy shooting way up north in
17:00
February or March might have experienced. Next, I was shooting this test with a rifle I put a lot of rounds through and my barrel
17:08
is fully broken in. Like I've mentioned in the past, I measure the velocity of almost all the ammo I shoot
17:14
in my rifle and I did that for this particular rifle from the time I first started shooting it
17:22
And I measured the velocity of all the shots I took on it throughout the course of my barrel
17:26
break-in and then I've continued to do that since then. So this was an interesting test case where I was measuring velocities on the same lot
17:33
of the same type of ammo through the same rifle from the beginning through barrel break-in
17:39
and then continuing on afterwards. And I noticed about a 50 to 75 foot per second increase in muzzle velocity on average
17:50
This sort of thing happens with just about every barrel to one degree or another
17:54
Now there's also a little bit of variation from rifle to rifle. Some are just going to be a little bit slower than others
18:01
Some are going to be faster, but any barrel will speed up a little bit after it is done
18:06
breaking in. So guys shooting brand new rifles, as is common with a lot of stuff and online message boards
18:15
for instance, with guys trying to figure out what load their rifle likes and talking about
18:19
those experiences in terms of velocities and group sizes and whatnot. Those guys with the brand new rifles are going to be getting a little bit slower velocities
18:28
at first than they will with the same rifle and the same ammo after they shoot several
18:35
boxes of ammo through their rifle. I have several hundred rounds through mine right now
18:41
So the temperature sensitivity can potentially account for a few feet per second of that
18:47
additional velocity I get and figure another 50 to 75 feet per second for me because I'm
18:53
shooting a rifle that's fully broken in compared to someone that's shooting a brand new rifle
18:59
Now it also could be that I just have a fast rifle barrel. There are fast barrels, there are slow barrels, and it's hard to tell which is which without
19:05
sitting down and chronographing a bunch of ammo through several different rifles side by side
19:11
But I think if you just sit down and take all those factors that I just mentioned into consideration
19:16
that probably accounts for the little bit of velocity increase that I am experiencing
19:21
versus what other people are reporting. So yeah, I'm still getting slower muzzle velocities with, say, the Hornady Precision Hunter stuff
19:28
that's newer production, but not quite as slow as what other people are getting
19:33
But I think that is why. Okay, so with all that said, what the heck does all this mean
19:38
What are the big takeaways that people need to keep in mind
19:42
First, the 7mm PRC is most definitely capable of achieving 3,000 feet per second out of
19:48
a 24-inch barrel with a 175-grain bullet. The exact ammo you are using matters a lot
19:56
Hand loaders have reported achieving that velocity, but they need to use the right components
20:02
to do so. The same is also true with factory ammo. The right factory ammo will deliver those velocities, but it needs to be the right factory ammo
20:11
It can't be just any old 7mm PRC ammo at this instant
20:15
Older Hornady ammo delivered that performance for me. So does current production federal ammo
20:21
To that end, check the lot number of whatever ammo you have
20:26
This is especially important for the 7mm PRC right now, but it's also something that is
20:30
just a good idea to do with any other stuff that you're hunting with as well, especially
20:35
higher performance ammunition and especially stuff that you would be using to potentially
20:41
shoot at longer range. Less important for a .308 or a .30-30 that you're probably never going to shoot past
20:47
one or two hundred yards. Hornady prints the lot number on all of their ammunition on the sticker on the back of the
20:55
box right under the advertised velocity. Federal prints their lot numbers on the inside flap of the box
21:02
Now this is a great example that not all ammo from the same company or even from the same
21:06
product line is the same. Like I mentioned earlier, two Hornady lots I've shot a lot both shot great, but they
21:12
shot to very different points of impact. That new Hornady ammo in particular shot really well for me, but it was just slow
21:20
Now 150 to 200 feet per second of muzzle velocity loss isn't the end of the world and it doesn't
21:27
make a big difference for many situations, but it does make a big difference for other situations
21:34
So if you want that extra velocity or rather if you just want to achieve close to the advertised
21:39
velocity at this instant, I got to point you towards the federal stuff
21:43
I was very happy with the performance of the federal premium 175 grain ELDX loads for the
21:49
7mm PRC. Now I observed this with both that 175 grain ELDX and their 170 grain terminal ascent loads
21:57
The ELDX loads from federal were going about as fast as I expected and I was very happy
22:02
with the accuracy I was getting from them. The 170 terminal ascent didn't shoot quite as accurate, but it was still very accurate
22:09
I was very happy with that. It was accurate enough for me to be using it as far as I'd reasonably be shooting that
22:15
cartridge anyway, and it was actually going a little bit faster than I expected too
22:22
So like I've said in the past, there are situations where losing 100 to 200 feet per second of
22:26
muzzle velocity doesn't matter. This is especially true when you're shooting a high PC bullet like that 175 grain ELDX
22:34
In situations like that, or if you just don't care, then yeah, use the Hornady Precision
22:38
Hunter ammo that's currently in production if it shoots well for you, like it does for me
22:43
Otherwise, take a hard look at the federal ammo. I think that 170 terminal ascent is a very underrated bullet for the 7mm PRC
22:51
It should be fantastic for hunting all manner of game at basically any reasonable range
22:56
and it is also a much tougher bullet than the ELDX that is much better suited, in my
23:01
opinion, for work up close on bigger game. And the federal 175 grain ELDX load is an excellent choice here, too, for people who
23:10
want to take advantage of the on-paper performance of the 7mm PRC in the short run and who just
23:16
like the ELDX bullet. So what is going on with Hornady? Why did they do this
23:21
Why is their ammo all of a sudden shooting a lot slower than advertised
23:26
I don't think they had a choice. I'm sure they would prefer to be offering Precision Hunter ammo right now that actually
23:32
delivers the advertised velocities. It sounds like they honestly can't get the necessary components to do that and are doing
23:39
the best they can. But that is still frustrating for hunters and shooters who want 7mm PRC ammo that actually
23:45
performs as advertised. Why don't they just change the velocity on the box and just say, hey, this is a 175 grain
23:52
bullet at 2800 or 2850 feet per second. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes at Hornady
23:58
Nobody's told me one way or another. I've had no communication with the company about this other than that email I read to
24:04
you earlier. So I'm just guessing here. But I'll bet they're probably trying to ride out the storm and maybe they're hoping or
24:13
anticipating that they are about to receive a big shipment of the right powder here soon
24:17
that's going to facilitate the production of 7mm PRC ammo that's actually going to hit
24:23
3000 feet per second. And then hopefully they're just thinking that the storm will end, they'll be able to put
24:28
all this behind them and it'll all be good after that. Now I also don't know for certain
24:34
So I'm just guessing here too. But I think there's probably a lot more to updating the advertised velocity for a given
24:40
load than just printing a new velocity number on the box too on the admin side
24:45
So the short story is I don't really know, but they're definitely not doing that right now
24:50
Hopefully they will sort it out soon though. With luck, we will not even remember this little controversy in a year or two because
24:57
Hornady, Federal, Nosler, Remington, Barnes, all those companies are going to be cranking
25:01
out all the high quality 7mm PRC ammo that we could ever use that's actually reaching
25:06
advertised velocities that hunters and shooters want and it's shooting great and just working
25:11
wonderfully afield. Now I did put a link in the show notes to my 7mm PRC ammo article where you can actually
25:18
purchase ammo from all these product lines to include the Federal ELDX and Terminal Ascent ammo
25:25
So check that out if you need some assistance in finding ammo and buy a couple boxes of
25:31
whatever ammo suits your needs. See how accurately it shoots in your rifle
25:35
See what your velocities are like. If you're happy with those things, go back and buy a bunch more from those same lots
25:42
and you should be all set. So if you enjoyed this video, please make sure you subscribe to my YouTube channel right
25:49
now and hit that like button. Just click on that thumbs up button and the red subscribe button below the video to make
25:56
sure you don't miss out on any of my future videos about hunting gear reviews, cartridge
26:01
comparisons, things like that. I've also put links below the video to articles I've written about the 7mm PRC in general
26:07
how it stacks up to other cartridges, hunting ammo I recommend for it, same with 7mm PRC
26:12
rifles, some of my other favorite pieces of hunting gear like slings, ear protection
26:16
and scopes. Now for more detailed information on popular hunting cartridges and what they are best
26:21
suited for, click the link in the description below or go to HuntingGuns101.com to get a
26:27
free ebook I have written on the best hunting calibers. Now I'm going to turn it over to you
26:33
What have your experiences been with the 7mm PRC? What factory loads have you shot out of your rifle and what velocities have you obtained
26:40
with that stuff? Let me know by leaving a comment on this video right now
26:45
Thanks for watching, have a good day, and good hunting