Up next in 10
6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 Creedmoor: Which 6.5 Should You Use?
5K views
May 10, 2024
To learn more about popular hunting calibers like the 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmoor, visit: https://huntingguns101.com/optin1615146914565?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=HG101&utm_term=YT&utm_content=6.5grendelvs6.5creedmoor In this video I talk about how the 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmoor compare to each other. While hunters and shooters in Europe first embraced the 6.5 caliber well over a century ago, it has taken much longer for that caliber to really catch on in North America. However, that’s changing fast as more and more Americans discover the advantages of the 6.5mm bore. At this point, the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.5 Creedmoor are probably the most widely adopted 6.5mm cartridges in the United States. Though they have similar names and utilize bullets of the same diameter, that’s basically where their resemblance ends. Indeed, the designers of each cartridge had very distinct priorities in mind and built the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 Grendel to accomplish very different tasks. In this episode, I’m going to do a detailed comparison of the 6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 Creedmoor to help provide some insight into which cartridge will work best for you. To read a more detailed comparison of the 6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 Creedmoor, visit: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-5-grendel-vs-6-5-creedmoor/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow BGHB: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheBigGameHuntingBlog Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebiggamehunter_/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheBigGameHunt
View Video Transcript
0:00
Hi there, I'm John McAdams, founder of the Big Game Hunting blog, and in this video
0:05
I'm going to do a detailed comparison of the 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmoor
0:10
cartridges. Now while hunters and shooters in Europe first embraced the 6.5
0:15
caliber over a century ago, it has taken much longer for that caliber to really
0:19
catch on in North America. However, that is changing fast as more and more
0:24
Americans discover the advantages of the 6.5 millimeter bore. Now at this point the
0:29
6.5 Grendel and the 6.5 Creedmoor are probably the most widely adopted 6.5
0:35
millimeter cartridges in the United States. Now though they have similar names and utilize bullets of the same diameter, that's basically where their
0:44
resemblance ends. Indeed the designers of each cartridge had very distinct priorities in mind and they built the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 Grendel to
0:55
accomplish very different tasks. So in this episode I'm going to do a detailed
1:00
comparison of the 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmoor in order to help provide some
1:06
insight into which cartridge will work best for you. As usual we will begin with
1:12
the history of these cartridges. Now as stated previously the 6.5 Grendel and
1:16
the 6.5 Creedmoor were each designed to accomplish different goals. For this
1:21
reason the story of each cartridge begins in a different place as well, with
1:25
the .223 Remington and the AR-15 for the 6.5 Grendel and with the .308 Winchester
1:31
for the 6.5 Creedmoor. We'll start with the 6.5 Grendel. Now the M16 rifle and the
1:36
5.56 by 45 millimeter NATO cartridge got off to a rough start in Vietnam, but
1:42
modifications to the rifle and ammunition solved most of the problems that plagued that system during the war. However many still had doubts regarding
1:51
the stopping power of that little cartridge. These concerns were shared by
1:55
civilian hunters who adopted the AR-15 and the .223 Remington cartridge during
1:59
the last couple decades of the 20th century. Now while the rifle and cartridge
2:04
worked extremely well for target shooting and predator slash varmint hunting, the .223 Remington developed a reputation for poor performance on
2:12
deer-sized game. However the AR-15 platform offered a number of advantages to shooters and, not surprisingly, was also very popular in the US. So for this
2:23
reason designers set about developing a number of larger bore cartridges that
2:27
were more powerful than the .223 Remington, but would still function in
2:31
AR-15 rifles. Among others this list includes cartridges like the .300 Blackout, the 6.8 Remington SPC, the .450 Bushmaster, the .458 SOCOM, and the
2:42
.50 Beowulf. Bill Alexander, who was the same guy that developed the .50 Beowulf
2:47
also designed the 6.5 Grindle to fit the same need in 2002. By modifying a 6.5
2:54
millimeter PPC case, which is itself descended from the .220 Russian and 7.62
3:00
by 39 millimeter cartridges, Alexander was very successful in building an efficient and sweet shooting cartridge that functioned very well in the AR
3:08
platform. The 6.5 Grindle is also significantly more powerful than the .223
3:12
Remington. So while the cartridge did struggle to gain widespread acceptance in the shooting and hunting communities for a variety of reasons, the 6.5 Grindle
3:21
was very successful in accomplishing its original goal of improving upon the .223
3:26
Remington while still performing well in an AR-15. On the other hand, the 6.5
3:31
Creedmoor got its start in the competition shooting realm. Dave Emory and Dennis DeMille began work developing a new cartridge in the early
3:39
2000s that they hoped would provide an edge in high-power rifle competition
3:44
shooting, which had long been dominated by the .308 Winchester. In short, they
3:49
wanted a new cartridge that was just as accurate as the .308, but with less
3:52
recoil, less wind drift, and a flatter trajectory. With these goals in mind, they
3:57
modified a .30 Thompson center case to shoot .264 caliber bullets. When all was
4:03
said and done, the cartridge had a relatively large case capacity, optimized
4:07
for use with .43-50 class propellants. It could also accommodate very long, heavy
4:12
high ballistic coefficient bullets without intruding into the powder column, and to top it all off, the cartridge still fit in a short-action magazine. Now
4:21
just like Emory and DeMille hoped, the new cartridge had less recoil, a flatter
4:25
trajectory, and more resistance to wind deflection than the .308 Winchester. Unveiled in 2008, the new 6.5 Creedmoor was a big hit among competition
4:35
shooters from the very beginning. Now, as more and more people started to
4:39
appreciate the advantages of the cartridge, the 6.5 Creedmoor has also started to gain widespread acceptance for big game hunting as well. Alright, now
4:48
let's talk about the relative sizes of the 6.5 Grindle and 6.5 Creedmoor. Now
4:54
aside from the fact that they both use .264 caliber bullets, there are some big
4:58
differences between the two cartridges. So first, the 6.5 Grindle is considerably
5:03
shorter than the 6.5 Creedmoor. This is because the Grindle was originally
5:08
designed for use in an AR-15, which can only accommodate cartridges up to 2.26
5:13
inches long. With an overall length of 2.26 inches, the 6.5 Grindle is the
5:18
maximum size cartridge that will fit in an AR-15. On the other hand, at 2.825
5:24
inches long, the 6.5 Creedmoor is much longer and requires a larger rifle that
5:29
can accommodate a .308 Winchester-sized cartridge like the larger AR-10. Now second, the 6.5 Grindle has a rim diameter of .441 inches, while the 6.5
5:41
Creedmoor has a larger .473 inch rim diameter. So, for these reasons, the 6.5
5:46
Creedmoor has a much larger case capacity than the Grindle, and it is also loaded
5:51
to a higher maximum average pressure than the 6.5 Grindle as well, of 62,000
5:56
PSI vs. 52,000 PSI. Now, as you might guess by looking at the cartridges
6:02
themselves, there's a pretty big difference in their ballistics. Now, when comparing the two cartridges, it is important to remember that the 6.5
6:09
Grindle was designed to offer better performance out of an AR-15 than the
6:13
.223 Remington, while the 6.5 Creedmoor was developed to improve upon the .308
6:18
Winchester in certain aspects. Now, the designers of both cartridges successfully accomplished those goals, but that also means that there is a big
6:27
gap in performance between the Grindle and the Creedmoor, just like there is
6:31
between the .223 Remington and the .308 Winchester. Now, this is apparent when
6:36
you compare a 123-grain Hornady ELD Matchload with a .506 BC in 6.5
6:43
Grindle to a 120-grain GMX with a .450 BC and a 143-grain ELDX load with a
6:51
.625 BC in 6.5 Creedmoor. Now, this data is for Hornady factory loads
6:57
fired from a 24-inch barrel and using a 200-yard zero. Now, due to the
7:02
significantly larger case capacity of the 6.5 Creedmoor, it can push a heavier
7:07
bullet at a faster muzzle velocity than the 6.5 Grindle, and a bullet that's
7:12
basically the same weight much faster than the 6.5 Grindle. In this case, the
7:16
143-grain ELDX is going about 120 feet per second faster than the
7:21
123-grain bullet from the Grindle, and that 120-grain GMX is going 345 feet per
7:28
second faster than the 123-grain bullet. Now, this obviously gives the 6.5
7:32
Creedmoor a definite edge in terms of kinetic energy and trajectory. The 6.5
7:37
Creedmoor loads have between 8 to 11 inches less bullet drop at 500 yards, and
7:42
they retain approximately 20 to 50 percent more energy at that range than
7:47
the 6.5 Grindle. Indeed, that 143-grain 6.5 Creedmoor load has more energy at
7:53
200 yards than the 6.5 Grindle has at the muzzle. Now, that being said, while the
7:57
Creedmoor has a definite advantage in performance at all practical ranges, the
8:01
gap in performance between the cartridges is not nearly as large at ranges inside of 300 yards. Now, that same general trend holds true when
8:10
comparing how much a 10-mile-an-hour crosswind impacts those same 6.5 Grindle and 6.5 Creedmoor loads out to 500 yards. Once again, the 6.5 Creedmoor, especially
8:21
with that 143-grain ELDX load, outperforms the Grindle in terms of wind drift. However, again, the difference between them narrows considerably inside
8:30
of 300 yards, especially when we're talking about that lighter 120-grain 6.5 Creedmoor load. Now, things change a little bit when we take recoil into
8:39
consideration. Now, when comparing those same loads when fired from identical rifles, the 6.5 Grindle has about 30 to 40 percent less free recoil energy than
8:49
those two 6.5 Creedmoor loads. Now, that is really saying something, too, because the
8:53
6.5 Creedmoor is also known for having a fairly mild recoil itself. So, with those
8:58
things in mind, where do we stand with each cartridge? So, the 6.5 Grindle and
9:02
the 6.5 Creedmoor use the same diameter bullets, but the Creedmoor shoots the
9:06
same weight bullet 300 to 400 feet per second faster than the 6.5 Grindle
9:10
because it's loaded to a higher pressure and it has a longer and larger case that
9:14
can simply hold more powder. So, for this reason, the 6.5 Creedmoor recoils more
9:19
but it has a flatter trajectory, less wind drift, and it carries more energy downrange. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a moderately powerful, relatively flat
9:28
shooting cartridge that's also pretty resistant to wind drift. Though it does
9:32
have more recoil than the 6.5 Grindle, the Creedmoor recoil is still noticeably
9:37
lighter than the .308 Winchester and most shooters and hunters can still handle it
9:41
without much trouble. Now, additionally, the 6.5 Creedmoor also has an advantage
9:45
when it comes to bullet selection. Now, while both cartridges utilize .264
9:50
caliber bullets, the 6.5 Creedmoor was specifically designed to utilize very aerodynamic bullets that are heavier and longer. Now, the cartridge typically
10:00
uses bullet weights in the 95 to 160 grain range with 120, 129, 140, and 143
10:06
grain bullets being the most common. On the other hand, the 6.5 Grindle uses
10:10
lighter bullets and it normally tops out around 130 grains and 120 and 123 grain
10:16
bullets are the most popular for it. Now, while the Grindle does give up a lot to
10:21
the Creedmoor in terms of ballistics, this is especially pronounced at longer
10:25
ranges. The Creedmoor still has a little bit better ballistics inside of 300
10:29
yards, but the difference between them is much smaller at closer range. So, when all
10:33
is said and done, the 6.5 Grindle is still powerful enough for hunting
10:37
medium-sized game at short to moderate range and, if we're being honest with
10:41
ourselves, the 6.5 Creedmoor is still far from a heavy-hitting cartridge in the
10:46
same league as something like maybe the 7mm Remington Magnum or the
10:50
.300 Winchester Magnum. It's really difficult to pick an accuracy winner between the Grindle and the Creedmoor. Now, on one hand, the 6.5 Creedmoor was
10:57
designed for competition shooting and it can shoot really long and aerodynamic
11:02
bullets, like I keep saying, that are more resistant to wind deflection. Now, on the
11:07
other hand, the 6.5 Grindle also has seen extensive use in the hands of competition shooters and it has an advantage in the recoil department. So
11:15
don't underestimate the impact that recoil has on the ability of a person to
11:19
shoot accurately either. Regardless of how well a given person handles recoil
11:23
all other things being equal, they will absolutely shoot better with a milder
11:27
recoiling rifle. So, inside of 300 yards, I'd probably give a little bit of an edge
11:32
to the 6.5 Grindle. At longer ranges, I would lean more towards the 6.5 Creedmoor
11:36
where using high BC bullets becomes more important. In any case, both are capable
11:42
of absolutely tack-driving accuracy in the right hands. Alright, now let's talk
11:47
about ammo selection. The 6.5 Creedmoor is by far the most popular cartridge and
11:52
as of 2021, the 6.5 Creedmoor is likely the number three most popular
11:58
centerfire rifle cartridge in the US in terms of raw ammo sales, behind only the
12:03
.223 Remington and the .308. So, it is really popular. So, not surprisingly
12:08
almost every ammunition manufacturer produces a wide variety of ammo for the
12:12
6.5 Creedmoor these days. Now, on the other hand, the 6.5 Grindle is nowhere
12:16
near as popular as the Creedmoor. Like the .50 Beowulf, the 6.5 Grindle was a
12:20
proprietary cartridge for a number of years and none of the big ammo companies
12:24
produced 6.5 Grindle ammo for a long time. Though it is now SAMI certified, it's
12:30
still taking a while for the cartridge to make up for lost time. Fortunately
12:34
Federal, Hornady, Nosler, and Wolf are all among manufacturers that make 6.5
12:40
Grindle factory ammo, in addition to Alexander Arms, which is the original
12:44
producer and they still make some as well. So, correspondingly, while prices and
12:49
availability do vary from region to region, the 6.5 Creedmoor is by far the
12:53
most common and least expensive of the two, at least during normal times. Now
12:58
hand loading is very popular for both cartridges and reloading components are
13:02
widely available. Now, since they both utilize the same .264 caliber bullets that are also shared by cartridges like the 6.5 Swede, the 6.5
13:11
Lapua, the .260 Remington, the 6.5 PRC, and the .264 Winchester Magnum, there's a
13:17
really good selection of good quality bullets in that bore diameter to choose
13:22
from. Now, let's talk about rifle selection. Once again, the 6.5 Creedmoor
13:26
is the most widely available of the two and multiple companies produce good
13:30
semi-automatic as well as bolt-action rifles chambered in that cartridge. On the other hand, only a few companies make firearms chambered in 6.5 Grindle, though
13:39
selection is improving. Now, the proprietary nature of the 6.5 Grindle also really hurt rifle development for a long time, as did the fact that the
13:47
unique rim diameter of the cartridge required shooters to get a new bolt face
13:51
and magazine in addition to a new barrel. Now, on the other hand, converting a
13:56
rifle from .308 Winchester to 6.5 Creedmoor is a much simpler process and
14:01
many companies have rapidly introduced new lines of 6.5 Creedmoor rifles by
14:06
simply modifying existing .308 Winchester models. Alexander Arms developed the first rifles in 6.5 Grindle and it continues to manufacture them. Now, since
14:16
then, Wilson Combat and a couple of other companies have also started producing modern sporting rifles chambered in that cartridge. It's also
14:23
possible to purchase a 6.5 Grindle upper receiver and convert an existing AR-15 to
14:29
shoot the Grindle cartridge. While there are several semi-auto rifles chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor that you can buy these days, there are even more bolt guns
14:38
available in the cartridge, like the Ruger American, FTW Hunter, Hawkeye Long-Range Target, and Number One rifles, the Remington Model 700, the Browning
14:47
X-Bolt, the Nosler M48, Weatherby Vanguard, and the Winchester Model 70. Now, the
14:53
Ruger American Predator bolt-action rifle is currently manufactured in both 6.5 Grindle and 6.5 Creedmoor as well. But, once again, like I said, just like
15:03
with ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor rifles are generally easier to find and you got a
15:08
better selection of them. Okay, so which one is right for you? The 6.5 Grindle and
15:13
the 6.5 Creedmoor are both well-designed for hunting thin-skinned, small-to-medium game animals like pronghorn, feral hogs, mule deer, white-tailed deer, and fallow
15:22
deer at short to moderate range. Though it's certainly capable of getting the
15:26
job done under ideal conditions, I would not advise using the 6.5 Grindle for
15:30
hunting anything bigger than deer though. Now, if you want to use a 6.5 millimeter
15:35
cartridge for hunting bigger game, then you probably need to go with the 6.5
15:38
Creedmoor of these two. With ballistics very similar to the old 6.5 Swede, which
15:43
Scandinavian hunters have used to take untold numbers of moose over the years
15:47
the 6.5 Creedmoor is much better suited for a game like elk and moose. This is
15:53
primarily because it can use heavier bullets with a higher sectional density
15:56
than the 6.5 Grindle. Even so, I personally still consider it to be a
16:01
little on the light side for really big game. If you decide to go that route, it
16:05
is extremely important to use well-constructed bullets. Be very careful with your shot placement and shot angles that you take, and really concentrate on
16:14
taking only broadside or very slightly quartering shots, and only take shots at
16:19
ranges inside 250 yards or so. So, do you primarily hunt medium-sized game like
16:25
deer, feral hogs, or black bear at ranges within 200 yards? Both cartridges will
16:31
absolutely get the job done if you do your part, and while the 6.5 Creedmoor is
16:36
definitely more powerful than the Grindle, there's not a gigantic difference between them inside 300 yards. Go with the 6.5 Creedmoor if you want the
16:45
cheapest or easiest to find ammo, or just a more powerful cartridge, or the 6.5
16:50
Grindle if you want to hunt with an AR-15, and or if you want to hunt with a
16:54
lighter recoiling rifle. Now, are you looking for the better cartridge for
16:58
long-range hunting for game like mule deer or pronghorn in open country, where
17:03
you might need to take a shot at several hundred yards? Both will also work in
17:07
this role, but I think this is where the 6.5 Creedmoor really shines of these two
17:11
because it has a flatter trajectory, will drift less in the wind, and it carries a
17:15
lot more energy out to several hundred yards. Now, do you prefer to use a
17:20
semi-automatic rifle for hunting or personal defense? Go with the 6.5 Grindle, as there's just many more semi-auto rifles available in this
17:27
cartridge than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Now, are you sensitive to recoil, and you need a
17:32
lower recoiling cartridge? Once again, go with the 6.5 Grindle. Now, do you
17:38
want the round that's best suited for target shooting out to say 1,200 yards or so in a precision rifle? Again, go with the 6.5 Creedmoor, which has a longer
17:46
practical effective range, and it really stands head and shoulders above the 6.5
17:50
Grindle for precision long-range shooting. Now, do you want a hunting cartridge that's well suited for a bigger game, like caribou, moose, elk, elan, kudu, or
17:59
red stag? I do consider both to be on the light side, but the 6.5 Creedmoor is
18:04
clearly the better choice of these two, because it just has so much more kinetic
18:08
energy at all ranges, and it can use heavier bullets. Now, as I've stated
18:12
several times in this episode, the 6.5 Grindle and the 6.5 Creedmoor are both
18:16
very solid performing rifle cartridges. However, since they were designed with very different goals in mind, the differences between them are pretty big
18:24
in many respects. So, you need to carefully evaluate your needs as a
18:28
hunter based upon the circumstances you foresee using the cartridge in, get a
18:33
good hunting rifle chambered in the cartridge you select, learn to shoot it
18:37
well, use quality ammo, and if you do all of that, it should serve you very well
18:42
afield. So, if you enjoyed this video, then please make sure you subscribe to
18:46
my YouTube channel right now. Just click the red subscribe button below to
18:51
make sure you don't miss out on any of my new videos on hunting gear reviews
18:54
cartridge comparisons, and more. Now, for more detailed information on popular hunting cartridges and what they are best suited for, click on the link in the
19:03
description below or go to HuntingGuns101.com to get a free ebook I
19:09
have written on the best hunting calibers. Now, I'm going to turn it over to you. Which cartridge do you prefer of these two? The 6.5 Creedmoor or the 6.5
19:17
Grindle? What game have you successfully taken with them? Let me know by leaving a
19:22
comment on this video right now. Thanks for watching, have a great day, and good hunting
#Other
#Outdoors
#Sporting Goods